Aloha and thank you for tuning in for another episode of Livestock Walaʻau! In this episode, we will be talking with Dr. David Ripplinger, bioengineer and bioproducts economics extension specialist, from North Dakota State University!
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Aloha and thank you for tuning in for another episode of Livestock Walaʻau! In this episode, we will be talking with Dr. David Ripplinger, bioengineer and bioproducts economics extension specialist, from North Dakota State University!
Check out the YouTube version on our LEG YouTube Channel!
Please also consider completing our feedback survey at the link below!
Check out our other social media platforms!
Guest Contact Information & Resources
Thanks for listening! Check out our other social media platforms!
Aloha Today's episode is brought to you by the Western extension Risk Management Education Center, USDA NIFA and the University of Hawaii College of Tropical ag and human resources and the livestock extension group as well as the University of Nebraska Lincoln Center for AI profitability. Hello, and
Melelani Oshiro:welcome to the livestock Walaau a podcast aimed to provide education and support information, guidance and outreach to our livestock stakeholders in Hawaii. We are your host, Mele Oshiro in Shannon Sand. And today we'll be talking with Dr. David Rip plinger with North Dakota State University. He's a bio engineer and bio products economics extension specialist. I feel like that's a mouthful. And I understand a little bit more about what that is now. But we thank you so much for being here with us today. And we had took a couple turns for us to get scheduled on here. I'm glad to hear that things are in the weather's weather situations are a little bit better where you're at. So thank you for being here today.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Happy to be here. Yeah, the blizzard struck on the first day of filming. So we had to come back. And then I'll let you know the main reason I did that is because all five of my kids were at home that day. It was actually day three of the Blizzard so it could have it could have gotten crazy.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, yeah, it gets interesting, right when you're on zoom with your kids, because mine's always does that he likes to be able to see his head kind of pop in and out of the screen. You know. That's true for interesting video. But yeah, so yeah, thank you, again, for being here. I'm really glad I got to meet you at the REM conference and got talking because we've been really wanting to learn more. I sort of about some of the things we're going to talk about with you today. But maybe if you want to just kind of share a little bit of your background and sort of your position there with North Dakota State and with our listeners.
Unknown:Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Dave, I have a majority appoint with NDSU extension. So my job is off campus is Meleʻs. And Shannon's bar as well. My job is actually kind of unique. It was created by the state of North Dakota almost 20 years ago to work with farmers and industry in the bioenergy space, the bio product space, which at the time was seeing a rapid build out for corn, ethanol and biodiesel. I've been in my position for about a decade. And in that time, things have been a little bit quieter. But I've been involved in a variety of projects related to carbon and climate, because greenhouse gas emissions are a big deal with biofuels. Right? And that's gotten really popular in the last three or four years especially. But you get them in intersects, I kind of think about it, I had about six or seven good years to study up. And now it's a short time now it's good time. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I also have a research appointment. So I do related research. Again, I'm very practically focused. A lot of what I do is kind of different than what other extension educators, agents specialists do. I meet a lot in small groups. So I oftentimes have coffee with two or three folks who are looking at project development working in biofuels or some sort of AIG value added venture. And then the last two years, I've been extremely busy with carbon and climate related programming. And just just to make it clear, so I am, I am a native North Dakota and we are a major energy state in terms of oil, gas, and coal. And, you know, relatively conservative in a lot of ways. But, you know, I take a very practical position when it comes to climate education, because it is important to all farmers and ranchers across the country. It's something that really can't be ignored. And you know, being able to effectively educate on this issue of carbon and climate is really important. And my evidence that I've been successful in this, as I mentioned in Chicago, is across dozens of presentations in hundreds 1000s of participants, attendees, I've only had a couple of times where things went off the track, because climate can be a sensitive issue. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of things, there's a lot of practical things that that you know, your viewers need to know. And right now a lot of them might end up being a bit hip pocket. But there are changes in the pipeline for livestock producers for those who produce cattle from from calves all the way to finishing and slaughter that are going to be increasingly affected by this. And so I'm really excited to be able to join you guys today. it.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, well, we're really excited to have you on. But I feel like I'm gonna be the one to ask a lot of really dumb questions because I was like, one with your title and your background, you sound very smart. And I've known you for a little while now. So I feel confident in saying You're pretty smart. But I, when I hear like carbon and carbon sequestration, I'm gonna be honest, I very much feel like it's just goes over my head. And I'm like, What does it even mean in terms of, like, for producers? Or just as an outreach type of what does it mean? Because I was like, my family has like a farm and ranch and Melis family as operations. And it's just like, how does that relate to, to the operation? And to people in general?
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, great question really gets to the core of it.
Shannon Sand:Six questions, and
Dr. David Ripplinger:then I'll do my best to address it, we might have to come back if you know, that's fine. You know, really, there's a number of ways in which this is impacting producers, and will impact producers. The first most obvious one is certain practices can capture greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, in the soil, that can be crop production, or livestock production, most attention has been given to crop production to date. And that's, that's I think that's properly weighted. But the livestock side of things is just as interesting. And it will be just as important once it fully matures. The the other opportunities really come, you know, from reducing emissions. And again, this can this can come a couple of different ways, and how, you know, producers might do this, you know, it. I think, in general, what's happening is we're seeing incentives provided. And this could be via USDA, they just got$19.5 billion for climate smart ag practices, which is being rolled out now. And maybe it was practices your producers may be considering, there's now more money for that. Yeah. And there's also these carbon contracts that are out there. And they're just kind of creeping up for for livestock right now. But the other the other side of it that nobody talks about, is, every business, every individual has some sort of exposure to climate. And we all have what I'm going to call a climate liability. For example, if you have a cow calf operation, or you feed cattle, there are greenhouse gas emissions associated with that. That's just a fact. That's what it is. We produce a lot of beef, which is fantastic. And there's greenhouse gas associated with that. And I think a lot of producers should take note that over time, how they address those emissions could be advantageous, or risky, negative. And we're going to see that come over time. I think in general, on balance, it's gonna be a positive thing. But for everyone in agriculture, for everyone in general, to understand that, you know, we all have these liabilities. But right now, they're not realized we have these emissions, when and how will they be priced? When and how will this impact you directly? And there's, there's, in many respects, there's no escaping it. It's just exactly how when When will this come to farmers and ranchers in any any part of the country? Yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, that I think that's some of the big questions that we get right is. So maybe we're gonna take a step back now and talk a little bit about sort of what is those emissions? Where it comes from? And sort of who are the main contributors in the sense, right, and I think that's, that's another, I want to say heated topic, but a hot topic, right in talking about those contributions and where they come from, do you? Is that something you think you can touch a little bit on because I feel like that's kind of where to, in a sense, when we have these sort of opportunities from USDA for funding to support different opportunities in research or, you know, in your production to mitigate some of those emissions? We have to understand which are the big or who are the big contributors and whatnot, in that sense. So yeah, I hope that said a very, I don't know, roundabout question, but no, I
Dr. David Ripplinger:know exactly what you're getting at. As I mentioned before, I mean, one of the first things to realize is that agriculture is a major emitter of greenhouse gases. And that's totally okay. Because we feed the world. That sounds good to say people exactly right. A lot of people a lot of people want to downplay it. And there there has been some really bad math that's been done that have overestimated our emission, but they are still sizable, because and there's no other industry like agriculture, where we work so much land that works so closely with the environment. So That aside, there are two really big sources of emissions in agriculture can start start on the crop side. And that's actually nitrous oxide. So we use a lot of nitrogen fertilizer to feed plants, be it corn, soybeans, you name it, I don't know if you guys use a lot of nitrogen fertilizer for coffee, but it's, it is, you know, it's unnecessary food. And so when we don't get that nitrogen into the plant, it can be released into the atmosphere as nitrous oxide, which is a very potent greenhouse gas. So that's by far the biggest. And then we can go straight to the cattle side of things, and methane, and methane emissions are also significant. Methane is also a very potent greenhouse gas. And so those are the two things we look at most closely in terms of emissions. But for both of those, there's their stories about why they happen. And, you know, one thing I would mention to to all the producers, farmers and ranchers, generally, when you work to be profitable, in knowing nothing about climate, you are doing things that reduce the emissions per unit of beef or per bushel of corn, that that occur again, because you don't waste fertilizer, it's a cost. You look for ways to put meat on efficiently. And that that is done to increase your profits or balance your your costs. And so you don't necessarily have to think about these things. But they are there. So those are those are the two big sources of agriculture. Both of them have a story. The best way to deal with with nitrous oxide is just being an efficient good user of fertilizer, which farmers and ranchers are farmers are I mean, you don't you don't yeah.
Shannon Sand:Like you said, you're gonna like do whatever you can to maximize your profitability and your yield and not go beyond that. Exactly. Diminishing Returns.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Absolutely. Yeah. And so it's built into the system. Yeah. And then on the methane side, there's interesting stories there. But that same phenomenon exists. But as we put more and more weight on the animals as they go to slaughter, which is just been something we've been doing for a few decades,
Shannon Sand:it's been a discussion. It's been more prevalent in the last few years about, you know, are they too big? That's a whole other conversation. Yeah.
Dr. David Ripplinger:It's something in the industry, right. But if we have more meat on each animal, those those per pound of beef emissions declined significantly. The other thing that's really interesting about methane is it actually degrades the atmosphere really fast. And so we're actually if you think about the balance of things, we as agriculture, own those emissions, for better or worse, but they're actually going down, per per per pound of beef, and are flat and or going down in total. So we're actually again, being more and more efficient, without even knowing about it, trying it. That being said, it is something that, you know, I do think hip pocket, you know, farmers and ranchers should know about. And we'll see exactly how this plays out, you know, financially as, as different programs, either government programs or private industry, things kind of come online. The other thing to think about too, in terms of beef and a lot of different livestock, you know, we feed various feed crops to them. So they end up owning some of those emissions too. So the the nitrous oxide that comes when we produce corn, if that corn is then fed to cattle, the cattle also have ownership of that of those emissions.
Shannon Sand:Okay, so it's like a cycle, basically, in terms of if you're thinking about livestock, and now it's bad or whatever. Yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, I guess that was a comment I was gonna say to was because, you know, you look at beef production now. And almost in any livestock production, right? You want to produce more often less animals. And that's kind of what we're doing, in a sense and over, I should say, that is what we're doing over yours. Right? Because you are we are producing more pounds of beef with less amount of animals compared to decades ago. So in a sense, that is our producers becoming more efficient with their production management. And in a sense, like you're saying, it just turns around to improve things on the other end as well. Yeah, so I guess Yeah. So we talked about Well, I think I feel like whenever you start talking about like climate stuff, and whatnot, it always lends back to cattle and just cattle in general. But I mean, other livestock production species and whatnot, also have an impact, or is it can you talk a little bit about that?
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, absolutely. So we do tend to focus on cattle because of methane emissions and methane is very potent. But we do know I mean, basically anything that we Do their emissions associated with it? And so that's why arguments to say that we have to eliminate all emissions are they're kind of nonsense, right? You know, we have to do this we need to eat, you know, how
Shannon Sand:can they Yes, vote is always good. And I'd
Dr. David Ripplinger:like to have it at least three times a day. Right? So please keep it coming. Yeah, but we, you know, we, we have to, we have to look at this, but we certainly know we have estimates. And just so so your viewers know, there is a huge system of accounting that's been developed over the last few decades that calculate the carbon footprint of pretty much everything. And, you know, for cattle producers in Nebraska, or Hawaii, or other parts of the country, we do have estimates are really high estimate high high level estimates. But we do that math. And so one of the important things to note was that's being done, and to that it's probably wrong, right. So any particular producer has their own specific numbers that we haven't calculated yet. But that is being done because a lot of people care. And those people who care might be the UN or the federal government, or IP isin, or it might be General Mills. And all of those parties can impact us in a variety of ways. And now, we've talked a little bit about, you know, government programs that might exist to incentivize either reducing emissions, or to capture carbon in the soil. We also know that major cattle buyers, like Tyson have already said, you know, they're actively engaged in this space. Yeah. And that the net does go all the way back to the cow calf producer, and it will go back to the corn producer, because as if your customer cares about greenhouse gas emissions enough to to determine where they're going to buy from, it does impact you. And so we know that and Tyson has said, we have to do this to ensure that we can get financing. We want to do this because we think that our customers value it. Um, that's somewhat debatable. But we do know, just again, from their practical standpoint, if Tyson winds up buying, you know, what proportion of beef in this country, right, I mean, it's a lot, right.
Shannon Sand:But it's just a lot. So yeah, as they
Dr. David Ripplinger:go down that path, it does matter. And so just to keep that in mind, you know, you know, Tyson has said, we care. So if you Yeah, if you provide feed to Tyson, the carbon footprint matters. If you prevent, provide livestock to Tyson, that carbon footprint matters. And right now, it might not matter much. But every year everyday, we're moving forward into this, this this place where we have to consider what we're doing in terms of emissions. And again, that might be something as simple as saying these are the practices that we use to grow or do to raise our livestock. Or it might be Tyson saying you have to do these things. But we'll see exactly how that comes about. But I again, my goal in general for most people, is just to understand that this is happening, right and to be ready in coming months and years. So you don't have to act surprised. So you'll know.
Shannon Sand:Okay, I'm gonna ask what may be a dumb question and probably is like, further back. But like, I hear a lot with again, carbon sequestration on carbon credits. I'm going to be honest, what exactly do those things mean? Because I have no idea.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, so. Yeah, so
Shannon Sand:I have no idea.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, yeah. And so the carbon credits, and there's been a lot of discussion about this in the last year or so, you know, especially on the crop production side. So there are folks who are interested in doing their mission seeds or large corporations. And they can do that within their own business or with their either their customers or their suppliers. Or if it's easier to do, they might go somewhere else in the economy and pay someone who will reduce emissions or capture carbon. And since those those businesses and it could be a farmer or ranch, since they offset those emissions of say, Walt Disney Corporation, they're called carbon offsets. But anyways, different companies have an are paying for agricultural producers for others to change their practices. The the actual effect of those practices is typically estimated, we don't necessarily measure them really closely. But we're already seeing, you know, relatively significant amount of funds flow from those buyers, to a variety of suppliers. And again, there's a menu of different practices. Okay, there's, you know, and that is mapped to how much carbon is either canned I'm sure to the soil or that isn't emitted, and that will drive the payment that a farmer or rancher would receive.
Shannon Sand:Nice, because I guess in my head when you're talking about this, I don't think of Disney. But I think of like, when people do NRCS plans and stuff, I know it's pretty, but I'm like, in my head, maybe some of these things are already practices they're headed towards anyways. So,
Dr. David Ripplinger:yeah, and there really is there is overlap. Yeah. What's interesting. So, you know, an NRCS does their math, they, you know, historically looked at a variety of environmental things, but not climate. In August, with the extra almost $20 billion, the Congress and the President said, Okay, you need to add climate to the list. And they're doing it within their existing programs. And so they're essentially saying, okay, these are programs that we have science that says they reduce emissions, or they capture carbon. And so they'll now pay, they have more money available for those particular uses. So that's a government side of things. And in general, you can double dip. So you might, you know, it's called stackability. So it producer who might do something like like mob graze, or someone who might reduce their tillage, they might be able to get a payment from NRCS. And they might be able to get a payment as well from this carbon offset market. And essentially stack those those payments.
Melelani Oshiro:Those carbon offset markets, or are ran by usually through government agencies, or
Shannon Sand:I was gonna ask, I was like, Is it a real I hate to say it a real market? Or is it like, several years ago? Like, they're tempted to establish the market type of thing? You know?
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah. So that's, that's a great question. So the carbon credit markets that we talked about, there's really two types. There's a regulatory market, if it's government policy that creates it, or there's voluntary markets, if there's folks like Disney Corporation, or Microsoft who are buying the the mechanics of the voluntary market, which is, for the most part bigger than agriculture, yeah, those rules are being established by by individual corporations, in tandem with one another. And it's really it, you know, we use the term market or markets. And that's really what it is. But it's not, it's not formal and established and mature, a lot of these transactions are almost one offs. So you know, we have farmers in North Dakota, who have a conversation with a large agricultural company, and they make a deal. So they sign a contract. And that's a trade, but the price that they received and the practice that they have, and all those details of the contract are really unique. And so today, that's really what we're seeing dominate is a variety of transactions, a variety of players, a bunch of different rules, I mean, some general, some general consensus in, we're talking about a metric ton of co2, yeah, but there are all of these markets, all of these trades, the prices in any given transaction might be really different. And so we're really years away from saying, okay, the price of carbon is$100. Yeah, I might be getting$20. And my neighbor might have the same practice to be getting 50, my practice might be tweaked a little bit, or you can have someone doing something completely different. But what we're all doing is creating these carbon credits. So it's a, in many respects, what's being done to is we're all trying to create the system that over time is going to grow tremendously in size. So last year, you know, we had less than $100 million in carbon contracts in agriculture. And the expectation is by as soon as 2030, there might be $50 billion annually in carbon offset credits. So you're talking about a growth of 500 fold? Yeah, a lot of money.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, that's a lot of potential uptake, depending on the person and the opportunity and stuff, but you're gonna use the, with the private industry, if they're each requesting something different. How much is that costing me as a producer to do that? So what I like
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, yeah. And we'll see exactly how all of that changes over the next five to 10 years. Because in general, what we're really doing is kind of, we're kind of feeling our, our way. We're trying to figure things out. And we really don't know exactly where things are gonna go. But by 2030 if certain regulatory decisions are made by the government, if there's a huge change in consumer demand, a lot of these corporations have want to be ready They want to be ready to say, Okay, we last year, we bought $20 million worth of credits this year, we need to buy 500 million. If the system isn't at least somewhat started, they're not going to get anywhere. Yeah, but again, that's what that's what they're trying to do. But the rules, the contracts, all of that is really kind of in its early stages. And we see this to where the terms can change from week to week, as especially the companies looking for these are trying to find the best way to work with farmers and ranchers, right. Ultimately, it would be fantastic, you know, you know, 10 years from now, we have this list of practices, we have these really, really solid estimates of the impacts, in terms of emissions, we have a single price per tonne of carbon. Right now, we're a long ways away from that.
Melelani Oshiro:Right now, most of these contracts are privately written then essentially between farmers and other other industry folks.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Okay. Yep, that's exactly right. And so it's tough because, again, when you, you could use the definition of a market to say we're talking about a single commodity, right? Yeah. Talking about, yeah, no calves at this weight in this place at this time, right. And that would be a market. Now we're talking about metric tons of co2. And the terms are all over the place. So really, in many respects, each one of those transaction are for different products, at different prices. And they're, in some respects different markets. And so we've got we, hopefully, we get to this place where everything matures, and we have a single market. Yeah,
Shannon Sand:some unification of it is what it hopefully it heads towards in the next few years.
Melelani Oshiro:Well, I definitely feel like it's a little clearer for me now. Because Sharon, and I've had it always had these questions, and we just didn't know where to search for the answers. And but that makes sense. You know, because it does, it's something that's in development, I feel like a lot of questions we get, or, you know, get here from Hawaii and producers is, you know, they don't see that market coming here. You know, because of our production practices, I should say, because we're small, you know, we're smaller industry here compared to nationwide. What do you what's your thoughts on things like that, for some of the producers that are sorta like our state is is a lot smaller in production? What's your thoughts on on carbon markets? And how those things are produced here? Here?
Shannon Sand:Yeah,
Dr. David Ripplinger:yeah, no, I, that's, that's a great question. And I just go back to it, it is impacting everybody, and it will impact everyone even more as time goes on. So in North Dakota, we have actually have a really small beef cattle industry do a lot of cow calf. And even even with that type of practice, and the limited numbers that we have, there are opportunities today to enter into carbon contracts. And it's going to, it's only going to continue to grow. And we can certainly reach a point where even even if you know your cattle producers, don't mark it to a Tyson, they're still likely going to have some sort of oversight. It could be the government saying, you know, do it this way, or we'll provide you payments for doing it that way. And I would really say that I can think of anybody who be able to escape that geography matters, the tiniest bit. Right. But in general, the, you know, you're part of this bigger market. And even if there was a case where it didn't directly affect a producer in Hawaii, it's still affecting the global price. Right. Right. And I would say it, I think it would be exceptional in five or 10 years to find a producer, anywhere in the United States, who isn't impacted by this. And hopefully in my expectation, it will be it'll be a positive thing, it'll be a good thing. You know, you'll be able to get a higher payment for doing things a certain way. And the other thing I, I'd recommend to everybody one, first of all recognize you have a liability to is you might have a really neat story that that gives your cattle a marketing advantage. And, you know, we're talking about climate, we're talking about carbon, and that that could be it. Right? I mean, there could be things that you do in Central or western Nebraska or on the Big Island where Holy smokes, you know, our emissions are different or better. And that's, that's a marketable trait. That's something where you can capture value. And that's something I think we're gonna appreciate more and more or, you know, there could be research done at one of our unit universities where it says, Hey, this practice works really well. It reduces costs, and it helps the environment. And 30 years from now, that'll be what everybody does. Yeah, and you won't even think about it, you'll remember Oh, yeah, I remember when I was a kid, we did it this way. Like, all all the little kids out there who smokes are in this business, you know, they're going to be looking back and say, Yeah, we do it this way. Now, to me what they did before made sense, but now we do it this way. And it's better. And so a lot of that research and learning is going to be exciting. And a lot of it, again, is not necessarily going to be detrimental in any way. But it might provide that advantage. And I, I think that as universities and industry kind of figure this out, you know, we're gonna see significant investment in those types of innovations. And that'll be really exciting. And it can give almost any cattle producer a unique market niche where you can say, Okay, first, you know, my cattle are produced here, and I do this really neat thing, and some buyer might be out there saying, that is exactly what I was looking for. Yeah. And, you know, case in point, I was talking to a neighbor, business owner, and they happen to be purchased by a large hedge fund, because they had just the little knee part of their story. And that made them very, very valuable. And so they had no intention of being purchased by anybody. But someone came to the table and said, We will pay. And I don't think that folks are necessarily going to come and get into the cattle business, but they might find your producers and that story. And it might be a smaller carbon footprint or something completely different. And again, that will provide a possibly a source of revenue, but me, you know, ensure that we remain a viable industry, right. And so that, to me is really, really exciting. It's kind of this crossroads of climate and carbon, and universities and producers. And I don't know exactly how fast it's going to go or in which way, but I just know that when there are folks who are possibly going to spend up to $50 billion, for things like that, we will learn we will do things differently.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of incentive for anybody. So, you know, even if you're only getting like a small percentage of a small percentage, that's a lot of money. It really is mind, you know,
Dr. David Ripplinger:yeah, it's really exciting. And the $20 billion, again, if you start at that 100 million last year, yeah. And then you think the federal government just putting 20 billion and billion dollars, that's still that's still a lot of money. Even with inflation. That's a lot of money. Right? Yeah. And that's over the course of four years. And then it might be 50 billion, it wouldn't just be agriculture, but AIG would have a huge piece of that. Every year is yeah, it, it. It's significant. And we and again, it's it's a lot of money, but we don't know exactly how it's going to be rolled out how much of that is going to go to a corn producer in Iowa or Nebraska, how much is going to go to a
Shannon Sand:livestock producer Braska or Hawaii or wherever Colorado or whatever. Yeah. That's so interesting, though, I did just, I would think that, the opportunity for this and learning more about it, to me, it's just very interesting, because I feel like, I know, You've been at this job for a while, but like, it feels like it's like at the very forefront where it's really starting to sort of pick up steam. So because that's like, I remember when we met a while ago, let's say at this point, but I was like, I kind of I did not have any understanding of what you're doing at the time. But this, like, just where we're at in the world right now. I'm like, Oh, this makes a lot of sense. I was like, and again, based on what I would assume is consumer demand and things like that pushing a lot of this forward. So I mean, it's a really interesting area,
Dr. David Ripplinger:ya know, it's a lot of fun. And, you know, things went from being kinda quiet to very busy. And that's enjoyable. And again, it is coming. Now the federal government has basically said, we are a major player in the US, you know, $20 billion major player Farmville coming up, who knows exactly what's going to be in it, but they're gonna solidify that the activities to date in those those Bibles, private companies really significant. And where it could go relatively quickly, is really exciting. But again, I do look at you know, the the term climate smart agriculture, which is now kind of a buzzword. That's that's what the federal government sees, you know, they see these benefits that we can get from production agriculture. And, you know, they've been where they put more than just that $20 billion into it today. And we universities have to do more research to say hey, how can we how can we take advantage of this? How can we help are cattle industries in our state? Or state? How can we help them? You know, be successful as this environment changes?
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, exactly. Seeing those connections and the research and whatnot develop is very interesting, you start to see these smaller projects come out and headlines in Shannon, I just kept going, okay, what are they doing here, you know, so it's good to be able to talk with you and kind of understand, you know, where this is all coming from, and how we can understand it better. And even for our producers, because, you know, we always feel like sometimes where we are a smaller industry here, you know, in the islands, and we are disconnected. So, you know, from the mainland states that we feel like some of this does, you know, how do we use it here? Right? And how does it apply to us, that's always what we want to know. And I always, you know, never really, you know, in the past seen, I've been with extension over 10 years now. But, you know, growing up and stuff, I never really thought about the connections from the States, you know, we always just really processed a lot more local products and beef here, now that we ship off so much for 80% of our calf herd, you know, and wieners that go off to the state, those kinds of things, and these types of projects, or I should say, even though these carbon markets are probably going to be something, I should say, we know, it's going to be something that's going to impact those types of markets and the industry on that in the form for us, you know, where folks are either retaining those ownership of those animals or not, I'm sure that those are all going to, it's all gonna pay play a part in that. So?
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, it's exciting. And I think one of the challenges, you know, you know, I'm happy to chat anytime. But there is a lot going on. And I think one of the challenges is for everybody to remain up to speed again, like the benefit of my position was, which is very unique with, with an extension now, yeah,
Shannon Sand:only one I know, that has opposition. But then extension out of the many universities at this point, I can say that I've worked.
Dr. David Ripplinger:I have, I am one colleague at the University of Wisconsin Extension who's close, who has a who was very close. And, and he he does a little bit of dairy stuff, too. But yeah, outside of that, and so it's exciting. But you have to think, too, I mean, I spend most of my day immersed in this. Yeah. And every day, I learned something new. Hopefully, it's news to everybody. But sometimes it's not. And I think one of the challenges that we face going forward is just staying up to speed, because things are developing so quickly. And so I mean, I would I would definitely, you know, encourage you and the viewers and your producers, you know, just to just to keep their, their eyes open and their their ears ready to hear something that might be happening. And again, is this a buyer on the mainland, is it you know, a processor in Nebraska knows exactly what's going to come about, but you're gonna get hit from a number of angles. And I don't know exactly, when you will get that piece of information that will be a valuable, that actionable thing that says, Oh, wow, I really need to sit down and think about adopting this new practice. Or I really need to think about a way to document what I've been doing, because there are customers who will pay. But all of that is coming to a head really quick. And, you know, we'll get to a point where this is part of the mainstream. This is part of what we do, you know, in, in North Dakota, we follow whether in South America, because it affects us well,
Shannon Sand:yes, yeah. Yeah,
Dr. David Ripplinger:yeah. But they will be getting on the radio or in whatever news they follow. Okay, here's some things that are happening in this carbon space. And we'll have buyers who are who are up to speed who can tell that story will have extension who is Is there also with information and resources, but it's going to take just a little while.
Shannon Sand:Are there some good like websites or places to go to for people that really do kind of want to like keep up to speed or like get updates? Or like, is there I feel like is there like an email newsletter that I can sign up for? I would wonder if other people were thinking the same thing where they could, you know, keep up to date with what's happening with some of this?
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, I mean, right now, unfortunately, there really isn't. Yeah, I would expect that over time, that will that will emerge. And again, it's because there's so many different players doing their own thing, okay. And even even within the university system, you know, even those of us who work at it, you know, the, we haven't gotten to the point to where it's like, okay, we need to have a person who does this full time all the time because I this is part of my space, but I also do a bunch of other stuff too. But So it's the you know, who's going to own this? And who's going to push it. And maybe it will be, you know, maybe it'll be private industry, maybe there'll be some eight journalists who say, Yeah, we do want to curate all of this carbon noon. Or maybe you'll have a single person who realizes, gosh, I could be the beef cattle climate person. And and be there, you know, for all of the industry across the country. You know, I had the opportunity to speak last October to a group of feed ingredient suppliers. And again, it would, you know, feed for a variety of livestock. really intelligent folks, you know, middle managers and hire from all over the country, most of them had no clue. No clue, including folks who sell significant amounts of feed to Tyson news about their customer, probably their major customer, you know, was not on their radar. And those types of things matter. But, you know, I think we'll have hopefully get to that place. And I do know, too, that is the federal government builds out their presence. And they're doing that with with the funding, they're going to do that with the new Farm Bill, you know, that might help us address some of those things. I mean, one of the things NRCS has said is we need to find out a way to provide this technical assistance to producers. And that's exactly right. It's like, and I sit down I go, yes, that's an extension can can be part of that. But it's in addition to all the other great stuff that we do, right?
Shannon Sand:Yes, yeah. Well,
Dr. David Ripplinger:yeah. And that's exactly. And that's exactly I even mentioned, you know, I've been in my position for over a decade. Yeah, there's a reason why, up until the last two, three years, I didn't really talk about carbon and climate, because cattle producers, farmers had more than enough stuff, to think about, right? Things that were more important, more urgent. And now we've gotten to the point where having just that basic understanding kind of that that kind of climate literacy is helpful. But I also know that there's other things going on. So it's not as if we all need to spend all day, every day learning about this. But just to understand that this is real, it impacts us, and it will become increasingly important to the future is really, really important. And I the last thing I want is for people to be surprised or not ready, when certain opportunities come around at the same time. Two years ago, it simply was not a priority. You know, and now, we've reached that, that that time where just a basic understanding I think everybody in agriculture should have.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, yeah, I think that makes total sense. And I was like, to be honest, I was like, I've heard people speak about like carbon and carbon sequestration and sequestration, so to speak, and credits before but it was like, I feel like this is the first time I kind of have an actual base understanding, just at the very, like, tippy top of the iceberg for a lot of this. So, you know, I just I was like, I feel like a little bit like there's a light bulb? Off. I don't know about you, but like,
Melelani Oshiro:yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, it has made things a little clearer for us to understand. And, you know, and also put, you know, information out there for producers of, you know, when they ask the questions, you don't feel like, you know, it's something that maybe we need to focus on. But maybe it is something that we need to keep in the back of our minds, to be thinking about, and just, you know, when we hear those topics come up, pay a little bit closer attention to probably information that's been shared, or maybe even information that comes down our way we should be sharing. And not always think that, you know, we it's important here in Hawaii to so
Shannon Sand:stay up to date, I think it's important everywhere. Because I agree with David, it's especially with the amount of money the government is putting into the program. And also, again, I would just say, I don't know, I haven't seen any actual surveys, but based on just watching TV and stuff. It certainly seems like there's like, a push from consumers and stuff towards that sort of, you know, yeah, sort of a market. I guess I'm probably not putting that correctly, y'all. But but you know,
Dr. David Ripplinger:I think it's, it's right. Yeah, it might be coming from consumers. And it might not, but we know that there are very, very successful very, very powerful corporations not even involved in agriculture, who take climate seriously. And, and because they're willing to spend money for us to, to change our practices. Yeah. That to me is a signal nothing. And again, one of the things in conversations, you know, climate science, you know, there's consensus around it, but it really doesn't matter. You know, if there's, if the government comes and regulates you, their reasoning really isn't important that regulation still stands. Yeah, if a customer comes and they like something about your product, But, and they're willing to pay for it, you know, correct or not? Their money is real money. And so that's, that's the one thing, just that practical nature of this makes it such that you really can't ignore it. In all of these, these corporations, they they're they're very large they're very advanced they have a pulse on what's going on,
Shannon Sand:I was gonna say I would assume these big corporations have the have the the studies and the numbers to back up with what they're spending their money on because my experience with large corporations and stuff and and the big mouse or whatever is that like they don't do it unless, you know, there are numbers to back up what they're spending their money on. Because like, you know, they're thinking long term in a lot of ways. So it doesn't always seem that way. But they are.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yep, absolutely. Yeah. And I think a lot of a lot of people miss that. That this is part and parcel of modern corporate thought, you know, how do we deal with climate and even for them, if climate impacts them or not, if the regulator's come and say this matters, it matters. If Wall Street says We won't give you financing unless you do these things, it matters. And that says it says nothing of if these climate risks are real, there are all sorts of businesses all over the world who have exposure, you know, if if extreme weather events, you know, increase in number of sea level rises, that matters to Walt Disney, right? You know, those types of
Shannon Sand:things Florida Yeah.
Dr. David Ripplinger:And so we'll, we'll see how it all plays out. But the, the fact of the matter is, these things are and will continue to impact production agriculture. And so we you have to stay a tune. Because, you know, it's gonna affect you one way or another, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what your personal preferences are, yeah, you know, if someone's going to come or if the regulator is going to come, you know, we all need to be ready. And if that all being said, I'm generally almost entirely the opinion, this is a net positive for agriculture. And we saw that with the $20 billion, we see that with folks coming to farmers, they're coming with, with carrots, and not with sticks.
Shannon Sand:That's always nice. Yeah. And then one thing
Dr. David Ripplinger:I'd say to Academy, the calcite is really interesting. It's, it's younger, it's about three or four years behind, there's some good science that support these different practices. But a lot of the work to date has been on crop production. But that's just because these things take time. But the the ways in which we raise livestock in this country are going to change. And again, that doesn't mean that anyone necessarily has to change at all. But as we understand this more, as you know, money comes to the table, people will respond in to me, that's really exciting. But the cattle stuff might take another five or 10 years before really takes hold. And who knows exactly, when that might be your producer who's sitting there at the table with that contract, saying, okay, you know, I'll accept these, these, these payments for doing something new. And the one thing I go back to you, Shannon made the comment about the size of these funds, it's significant. I mean, there are farmers who signed contracts, and they you know, that day, they get a check for $100,000 or more. I mean, these are not, these are not necessarily small payments, if you're a smaller producer, yes, it does scale. But certain practices are really, really advantageous. And if you have those, that's a value and will probably be of increasing value in the future. Yeah.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, that makes sense, because we're all still gonna drive vehicles for especially in the US,
Dr. David Ripplinger:and we're still gonna need food, right? Yeah, there's no way those things. Yeah, there's no way we're not eating beef in my household, right? You tell me if I have to pay more. Yeah, well, but we're still gonna eat it. So
Shannon Sand:I was gonna say, we were just talking about prime rib dinners the other day, and I was like, yeah, that's like my face. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Dr. David Ripplinger:Yeah, we're limited to, whatever whatever ribeye steaks, we get off our half
Shannon Sand:now. But yeah, I'm sure it's really good North Dakota movies, though. So it's
Dr. David Ripplinger:my in laws. So it's family stuff. So I wouldn't, I would never dare
Shannon Sand:it's always good. Always good. It's always great. Yeah. Yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:Well, thank you, David. I think that that does make things a lot clearer. I feel like that's a good information. For me. I understand a little bit more about the carbon markets and all those kinds of different terms. IRMS Yeah, that we were kind of questioning. Yeah. So, and I know that there's way more to your position than just the carbon aspect of things. Because in extension, that's just how it goes. You wear hats, too many different things. So I'm sure at some point, we'll probably get you back to talk more and maybe give us an update about things what's going on. But is there anything else you want to share with us? Either about your projects that your current projects or research that you're doing or anything else? Um,
Dr. David Ripplinger:no, really, I would just say that now that our weather in North Dakota is nice. I'm not quite as jealous. I'm moving in the islands or even or even Nebraska.
Shannon Sand:Nicer than you heard last week. Oh, very much. Like the ad that was hot. I was like, Oh, God. Yeah, we're
Dr. David Ripplinger:gonna have our two months. A nice weather here shortly. So yes,
Melelani Oshiro:yeah, that's good. You say two months of nice weather. Is that what it is? That's what we hope for? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I was pretty excited when he saw a little bit of snow in Chicago. And I got really excited. And Shannon told me Millie, that's just spit. I'm like, Okay. To me, it's white. It's coming down from this guy. So it's actually got fluffy snow a little bit. Quite a bit. Yeah. So Well, thanks again, David, for joining us today really appreciate you taking time to come and share and talk with us about some cattle and carbon here so we can share that information with our producers here in the state.
Shannon Sand:Yes, thank you for joining us. So we we do hope our listeners found this informative and that it will be useful to them. Also, if you have not already done so please be sure to fill out our feedback fest which will be listed below to let us know your thoughts about this podcast and what you want to learn more about in the future.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, make sure to follow us on our social media pages. And I said follow and livestock extension group if you haven't already, and be sure to visit the U H. CTAHR. Extension website and our YouTube channel channel which will also be listed in our show notes.
Shannon Sand:Yes, and for additional information about this topic, see the show notes of the podcast and the description box of the YouTube page. Thanks for listening to the livestock bow but before we go show some love for your favorite podcast. That's us by the way, by leaving us a review anywhere you listen to this and then stay tuned for next month's episode.
Melelani Oshiro:Yes, thanks again to our sponsors the Western extension Risk Management Education Center, USDA NIFA, the livestock extension group and CTAHR and the University of Nebraska Lincoln Center for Ag profitability. Thanks again for listening to livestock fall out and thank you again, David for joining us.